11 Responses to 11 Responses to Dobson's 11 Statements Against Same-Sex Matrimony
This is from Stefanie in the comments section:

I just had to throw together a few quick responses to Dr. James Dobson’s 11 Reasons Why Homosexual Marriage Will Destroy Our Society. I am appalled that people are so quick to follow this train of thought without thinking logically, looking at the facts, and remembering the example of Christ Himself, whose message of love has been tainted and perverted by a lot of so-called Christians out there, particularly with regard to this minority population. “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.” I know I won’t change anyone’s mind, but I do want it to be known that not all Christians are filled with hate and/or fear toward our gay brethren.
Stef

Thanks for taking the time to type and respond, Stef. I really appreciate it, and I've got to say before I post this humungous piece that I agree with alot of what you've written. But my underlying disagreement here is that there are a few presuppositions that need to be questioned before taking a stance either way.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family. What is a “traditional family”? A mom, dad, 2.5 kids? With single-parent, divorced and blended (step) families … and yes, the homosexual families that do currently exist in full force out there right now … that family “norm” is no longer. Families currently exist in all forms, and no law can change that. Focus on your OWN family.

You hit my biggest stance in the whole thing: "Focus on your OWN family" - take care that divorce and abuse and other factors working in relationships that tear the fabric of "the sanctity of marriage". The "traditional family" is probably better understood, however, as a metaphor of a tree. There's one man and one woman, together building a life in love with each other. Out of that relationship, children come and are raised and go on to build their own families. If no children enter the picture, fine - the tree is the same. Add in grandparents, goofy uncles, etc - all of these flow from the same basic design. "Be fruitful and multiply" was a very broad statement from God to the human race, and the way for that to happen was the one man-one woman starting point. If that is taken into account, there's no room in a Christian sense for two men or two women to call themselves a "family".

2. Children will suffer most. How could a child suffer from two loving, committed parents? Children suffer from divorce; from abuse, from poverty; from neglect; from a lack of education and health care. Children suffer when their parents aren’t allowed to get married or are hated, shunned and discriminated against. His argument is, however, based on the ridiculous stereotype that “homosexual people are rarely monogamous,” I’d like to know how many homosexual couples Dr. James Dobson has personally known, and where he gets this statement. I don’t notice a footnote; this is not a “fact” but his own personal belief. The gay couples I’ve personally known (and there are many) have been monogamous for years, most of them with a better track record of commitment than a whole lot of the heterosexual married couples I’ve also known. Look at the lifestyle he describes and think about all the heterosexual married couples who have divorced and remarried, divorced and remarried, and realize that what Dobson is describing is eminently typical in HETEROSEXUAL partnerships. I would also contend that most homosexual married couples with children are, if anything, MORE committed than the average straight parent because gay parents have had to move heaven and earth adopt or conceive these children. Gay couples, unlike straight people, don’t have kids by accident.

But consider this - if the underlying idea that the "family is supposed to be founded on one man-one woman in loving marriage relationship", can you see why this would be so wrong to the children? Where each individual is making a decision to do this in the face of "tradition", the children involved have no such choice. Now, they're mired in a mixed up counterfeit - it might look better and feel better and even love better, but it will always fall short of the ideal - and that's a real problem, isn't it?

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality. This smacks of the old “Public schools in every state will embrace integration.” News flash: there are gay teachers, administrators and students working in, and attending, EVERY PUBLIC SCHOOL IN AMERICA, RIGHT NOW. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that these hard-working, middle-of-the-road, average Americans should no longer have to fear being bullied, harassed, intimidated or fired. I don’t think Christ would, either.

I am against bullying, hate-crimes, harassment, intimidation or any other discrimination against anyone for any reason. However, what I think Dobson is saying here is that "homosexuality" as a viable option will be a major, not just a minor, part of any curriculum. Again, if you accept something like what I wrote in #1 as the ideal, then bringing this up to the same level does a disservice to the people we're trying to train for life in future society.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete. Now there’s a weird stretch of logic. If adoptive parents were regarded equally with full consideration given to their mental./physical/emotional/financial FITNESS AS A PARENT as opposed to their sexual orientation, wouldn’t adoptive kids be better off? We’ve all heard horror stories of abusive adoptive heterosexual parents. “Straight person” doesn’t necessarily equal “good parent,” as any kid who’s in foster care could tell you.

You'll probably find a trend in me, and I think this is the thread that's going through all of Dobson's statements: a family is rooted in the loving relationship of one man and one woman. Adoption laws that now respect that ideal will be obsolete, for better or, I think, for worse. It has nothing to do entirely with a person's fitness to be a parent - rather, will that ideal continue to be lifted up.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically. … because, as Dr. James Dobson puts it, they would have to “affirm” homosexuality in children and teenagers. According to the National Association of Suicide Prevention, the leading cause of suicide among teenagers is depression among gay teens who fear society’s reaction to their sexual orientation. Here’s another news flash, folks: people don’t “decide” to be gay. Who would choose to be hated, discriminated against, shunned by one’s family and friends? Would you? When did YOU decide that you were straight? Your answer is most likely “I’ve always known I was straight.” And that’s how it works with everyone.

This is another area where the underlying assumption might be wrong. Homosexuality has not been 100% proven to be a genetically acquired trait. It's probably something grown into a person, with certain environmental and genetic factors going into a person's sexual identity. However, it does not have to stay that way. The "choice to be homosexual" never has to be made; but someone can choose to follow that path, instead of possibly "reversing nature" and changing themselves through will-power or through the grace of God. There are some aspects of alcoholism that appear to be genetic, too - probably also in drug addictions, obesity. What about generational curses, mentioned in the Bible, where the sins and decisions of an ancestor have lasting ill effects on the children and the children's children? All this to say: "being born like this" is not necessarily a reasonable excuse for staying that way. But again, if you don't hold #1 up as an ideal, this is probably not an issue. But for Christians, promised that we are "new creatures" in Christ, homosexuality would be one of many things that we would want to leave behind and move beyond in growing in Christ-likeness.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse. This is because, as Dr. Dobson puts it, “every HIV-positive patient needs only to find a partner to receive the same coverage as offered to an employee.” Well, what about the 78 percent of the HIV/AIDS population in the U.S. which, according to the CDC, are heterosexuals? Yep, that’s right, folks, HIV/AIDS is not a “gay” disease; it affects every population. If Dr. Dobson is truly concerned about saving our national health-care system, he’d support preventative and educational programs among HIV/AIDS’ fastest-rising populations: women and minorities. It’s funny, though: I don’t see him support that, anywhere on his site! I don’t see any other talk about preventative health care, either, or discuss the plight of the millions of children in this country who lack health-care coverage. Where’s the real concern here?… Dobson also discusses the horror that will befall American businesses if gay people should decide to marry and collect health benefits. But this argument doesn’t hold water when you consider that: a. Dobson is a strong advocate of heterosexual marriage, and b. heterosexuals make up approximately 90 percent of the population. If all heterosexuals were to marry, it would create a much bigger strain on business owners than does this small percentage of homosexual unions.

I'll agree that the logic presented is a stretch. But what about the people who have not had marriage-influenced insurance policies now being able to get just that? In our family, I am on my company's insurance alone, and my wife is on hers. But since she's a teacher with better and cheaper dependent benefits, she also has our kids under her policy. There are things we can do as a married couple that can save us $$$, and that will now be available for anyone - it would be too broad for the system's current design. If homosexual partnerships are allowed, what about polygamous marriages? Now it grows exponentially, passing family benefits all over the place. Prices, inevitably, will have to go up to cover those bases.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed. See the above argument. Dobson is using fear tactics to inspire the belief that there is such a huge population of gay people who want to get married that it would break Social Security. He fluctuates back and forth from calling gays a small, vocal minority and a huge, looming threat depending on the argument.

But take my argument above, too - these systems were built on the one man-one woman ideal I mentioned all the way back in #1. They're not ready to handle, except maybe at the small percentage this will actually impact in the beginning, what can happen as almost anyone and everyone can claim family benefits.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized. It’s not true that anyone deemed homophobic in Canada will be jailed. It IS true that anyone committing hate crimes in Canada will be jailed — and this is based on race, RELIGION, gender AND sexual orientation. Just like in the United States. No one can stop you from hating gay people, but you will be punished if you harm them physically, harm their property or otherwise violate their basic rights as a human being. And, the idea that Bibles will be mandated to remove anti-homosexual passages is laughable, to say the least. Incest and rape is illegal in this country, and there’s plenty of that in the Bible.

I've read some of the things about Canada's new laws, and I'm not sure that what I'm posting here might not be construed as a "hate crime" for just taking a stand on what the "family ideal" should be. It's a red herring to say that there's lot sof evil stuff that's not cut out of the Bible - those things are in there, and they're never lifted up as the norm or as a good thing. However, I think that Dobson is talking more about our pulpits, where it will become increasingly difficult, if not legally then at least culturally, to preach the Truth as presented in the Bible and a personal relationship with Christ. That bothers me, too - it won't shut me up, but it makes the message that much more volatile.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead. Since when do other countries give a good rip what the U.S. is doing? The international community right now, thanks to this war we’re mired in, thinks the United States is comprised of narrow-minded jack-booted thugs. Our laws have not influenced the likes of England (where guns are illegal), Amsterdam (where marijuana is legal) or any other country, for that matter. In fact, the U.S. is one of only seven countries (along with upstanding international citizens Iran, Congo, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen) in which the government is allowed to put minors to death. No one is rushing to follow the U.S. in that happy little statistic. My point is, the U.S. doesn’t have as much influence as Dobson likes to think we do. Anyway, even if other countries were following our lead, so what? We live HERE, not in other countries.

Of all your responses, I'm probably with you on this one. We have a moral background, but much of it has eroded to the point that it's ineffective as a "lighthouse" to the rest of the world. However, as the world's only superpower, I do appreciate the need to at least try to stay above the fray.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed. Depends on who you ask. This Christian thinks it’s a disgrace and a direct contradiction of Jesus’ teachings that a group of people are being singled out with such hate and vitriol. We pass along to our children what we want them to believe, not what the government wants them to believe. At least, that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Lots of people’s religious beliefs are violated by federal, state and local laws, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon them. (Should we outlaw birth control because Catholics think it’s sinful? Do we ban all coeducational public schools because Hasidic Jews have a religious ban on boys and girls learning in the same instituitions?) What it means is you learn to live by your faith, within the law of the land.

I think the gospel has been curtailed by this and many many other things going on in the country and within the church in this country. Our problem on this issue is that we have indeed "singled out" a group of people - instead of judging their sin and lovingly embracing them into the community of believers who should be modelling Christ better.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37). Well, this is Dobson’s personal belief, and you can follow it if you want or leave it alone. Personally, I think that God’s plan will always come to pass.

Another assumption that you might need to question. God's will will not always come to pass. He would rather all people come to Him; He would rather Eve and Adam not have eaten that dang fruit and found a form of "the knowledge of good and evil" that was apart from their relationship with Him. But those things won't happen. God's level of control is held back, on purpose by His own sovereign will, by our ability to choose Him or not. My only problem with Dobson here is that the world is already "like the days of Noah" - there's no cultural search for God, and we like it that way.

If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t marry a person of the same sex.
Peace out.
Stefanie

I didn't - but it was because I loved her, and in her I could follow God's ideal as laid out from the beginning.

Let me say this in conclusion (of the longest post I've ever posted!) - thank you, Stef, for posting from your heart. All of my "debate" goes to that one issue on #1 - God's ideal appears to be one man and one woman. That's it - if we walk away from that, however "okay" that might be, we are falling short of God's intention. And that can never be a good thing. Where you mentioned in your intro that we should be "remembering the example of Christ Himself, whose message of love has been tainted and perverted by a lot of so-called Christians out there", I'd ask that we remember that Jesus' message is one that also brought the Kingdom of God to bear on real life. His message is that we are not as we should be, and that in Him is change through His grace for His glory and for our abundantly real and fulfilling life. Something I read recently said that we are "to become by grace what Christ is by nature" (Jason Z, TheOffRamp). Anything outside of God will be counterfeit at best.
- posted by Rick @ 15:22